Here's the belated off-topic post, the first in the new year. Please follow the Guidelines of the wiki and keep off-topic in this thread. Have fun, and happy holidays!
222
pages
ALL POSTS
All posts by EmmyAnimal
^^Then, things seem to be better than I thought. I also apologize if my view of it was terribly off the course, since I exaggerate, I know. At that point it seemed much worse, so I'd rather not go back to it. I still stay at my points and would dislike it if my impression was true, but now it sounds very different. I'm glad we can end on better terms, as I said about Clara, so thank you.
If I leave (due to piling up gradually, not this alone), I don't know if we'll be able to keep in touch, but I'm glad it ends this way instead of what I perceived it as that time.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
Then I won't repeat myself, my responses would still be the same. I just appreciate it that we still can maintain a good relationship.
Well, Clara, at least I think you are debating amicably, and I wouldn't expect a terrible reaction if I stated a negative opinion about your conclusions. I do still think some of the points are a bit contradictory, and I hold on to mine because I truly think they better contribute to morals, I truly want to do good. I also do think your view has moved a bit from 'it isn't there at all' to 'it isn't that bad', which is still closer to mine. But maybe we can agree to disagree and still be on firendly terms, i don't feel it's impossible for people like us.
While the other response is a good example of...everything I explained why I consider wrong about the subject, of contradiction, of everything that leads to inequality, the switch and the denial happening, so I won't respond to it at all.
If I do leave, it won't matter I guess. If I don't, maybe it's the best to change the subject at this point.
No one said it was worse?
And I don't agree it is barely so either. It's more than barely, less than worse.
At first, you provided no examples and I listed those I know of verbally. Okay, you don't believe me. You probably also won't believe me that I thought of searching links, or adding them here when I see them, it should be easy as it's on a weekly basis. But I gave up for the probability of feeling very bad upon seeing them all, didn't look at yours for the same reason, and I already feel bad in this conversation. Of course, you'll think it's because I don't have evidence. I supose you could search for them too in the same way as you did yours. I think I'll be leaving altogether
@Yeahsure19 In relation to that, can we continue the thread on my Wall or maybe Discord?
No one said they face it more, but if anything happens even once, even minor, it's not okay to anyone. So it's unfair for it to be taken lightly for some. You said yourself white people face it too, it isn't less real if you've seen less of it, or if it actually exists less (which we can't know because we don't know of every case). And, this is already not amicable debating any more, so please no insults of other opinions.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
I already gave multiple explanations as to why that occurs even here, let alone in whole social groups or territories.
At this point, it feels like people don't want to understand/believe, and just like in dystopia, there are three social classes: those who indeed don't, those who do but are saving their jobs/lives, and those who are maintaining the whole thing on purpose.
Is that another case of it not being the same if someone called you straight when you're not, because it sounding like straight is bad is okay?
No, racism is the belief that race matters for classifying people. And even that systematic thing about power is what they are facing at the very current time, or in the future. Yes, oppression of one group is still a thing, but the oppression of the other one is trying to pose as the solution for that, actual helpful solutions are escalating into the different extreme. I know regular people don't have this intention, but the system is a different story. As the proverb says, the devil's best trick is to convince people he doesn't exist. I am already a witness bad attitudes won't be stopped because they or their likely consequences aren't seen as an existing thing. As another one says, if you want to know who rules over you, think who you aren't allowed to criticize. If one can insult or mock someone, but the other one can't, who is privileged? And why would I believe it won't, and hasn't, grown into sharper verbal attacks, then physical, then legal? It already happened once.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
But...that sentence would be making fun of you for it at that very moment, and is seen as not too bad. If it isn't seen that way at that point, it will escalate, if people learn it's allowed. If such things had been stopped when societies first turned against gays, black people, women...it wouldn't have developed. And the other direction is already developed more than it seems some are aware of, and more people have had serious consequences than it's acknowledged. It's a bit strange to be super wary of things for one group and casual about them for the other, and the experience of it happening already makes it even stranger that the repetition of making the mistake isn't recognized precisely on the base of the differences that are said not to matter when one emphasizes the minority's differing. Why would it not develop into something bigger, it did once in the other direction. If one group is seen as okay to make fun of at all, then it's already developing; not to mention other things being more serious doesn't make one thing not serious. And as said, I'm surprised those more serious things haven't been heard of.
We both already explained why we don't feel the post was simply asking for that, and I'd bring back parts that did. I said it called characters idiots in relation to being straight, because I understood the term was used because the sentence was about that. I couldn't have known someone means 'idiot' as a good thing.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
If the two sexualities are 'different', and different standards should be used, it seems one doesn't believe they are equal then. If we do believe they are equal, and are against acting as if they weren't, let's not act as if they weren't. Treating them differently is also oppression, and doesn't help the minority either, since it further emphasizes unequal view. The goal is for both to be treated the same, not to switch places and have the other one be the one it's okay to treat differently.
I hope for the fear related to straight people will be solved with proper help. I suggested for the post to be restored in a reworded way.
I've seen a lot of cases of actual heterophobia, insulting people for being straight, seeing it as a bad trait, believing all straight people are homophobic, not allowing them to participate in conversations at all, not only in an insulting manner. And what I said above, but the standards aren't equal for equal actions, and that's seen as okay. Unless, reversed jokes will be accepted too, becuase I also find them funny because they are ridiculous? And, being a minority doesn't excuse you for possibly being wrong about this topic either.
I'm also very sorry my, and people's, ability to understand things that didn't happen to themselves only is doubted. Sometimes it's the trait of empathy, that I have reasons to believe I possess, sometimes it takes the simplest common sense. But, if I said the opposite, that would again not be viewed as the same, and I am against discrimination exactly because I am against making this sort of difference, or respecting opinions more based on sexuality. At that pace, we will have the case of becoming what we vowed to destroy. Frankly, the privillege is slowly switching sides- in some societies and social circles. So, straight people have to worry now or in the future. While others are becoming protected even from just saying they are weird, It is bound to swtich places if it doesn't even out.
I'm unsure where the idea about every character in the media being straight comes from, those that aren't are immensely common.
In all honesty, having different standards is discrespectful in any direction.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
Update: Yeahsure think the post could be restored without the bits at issue, and we can be careful not to turn it into a political/social debate (I am aware the OP asked something similar too). I suppose we could manage that tomorrow.
Thank you, Elias.
I already explained this; I feel a lot of recent official rules and even laws only deal with protecting minorities (which is good), but not majorities. Doesn't that put them into a bad position, which oppression is?
For one, if one says something bad about me (either seriosuly or as a joke) being female, or bisexual, or anything, a lot of people would react negatively, and they'd be banned due to the platform's rules. But if they say so about someone being male, straight etc. fewer would notice, not even believe it happened, and the rules simply don't cover that. I'd say this does put them into the worse position. I think solving such problems for the minorities is a great idea, but the issue is such problems aren't being addressed for others. This is slowly starting to switch positions instead of breaking even. All the more reason I'm grateful that you here did address the issue in the same way as you would in the opposing case when I explained it. Thankfully, a lot of people do that as well.
I always understood it as implying hatred. I can't believe that this hatred doesn't exist when I've spoken to people who express it.
EDIT about things that were posted in while I was typing:
I don't really think something shouldn't be seen as existing if it's one person, since that person exists, and acts on it. But I really don't think it's one person, I think it's entire sociopolitical groups and even laws- even the rules on this platform seem to only protect minorities from hate speech (which I am very grateful for), there is no mention of majorities. Sometimes it feels as though the goal isn't to achieve equality, but to swtich places. I'm sure regular people like us mostly don't have this intnetion, but some who manage the whole thing, as well as extremists on both sides, do.
And, I kind of think that presenting oppression as impossible towards someone would...oppress them, as it'd expose them to a lot without it being detected as something bad. (I'm not refering to anything you are doing). I felt the need to say this, but I don't want to further try to convince anyone, it's natural people view things differently. I really mean well with all my beliefs, for every group.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
I've seen a statement that 'gay people aren't a**holes like straight people are', and more, but this is the only one I accurately remember, and I don't want to repeat incorrectly. To me, it's nothing unusual (but indeed very sad) that some hate others for anything. In cases like this, minority vs majority, I find perfect (but twisted) sense: the latter would hate the former for bigotry, but the former would hate the latter for the bigotry that some of the latter display, projecting it onto everyone. I frankly find it unusual that the idea is unusual or unseen for some. I don't believe the post meant to go there, my suggestion still stands.
Thank you so much for understanding, Elias (and Clara earlier, privately), especially due to the delicacy of this topic. I am extremely relieved when people view this issue in the same way as I do, because I strognly agree with the above.
Possibly, and I'd even say likely, it didn't mean to suggest it, I suppose it might have just got carried away with some wording, and instead of dicussing, I panicked and deleted it altogether. I'm open for restoring it in some way, and then we'd need to wait for Yeahsure either here or on Discord, I'll tell you if she contacts me there.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
I suppose I will at least partially address this here; it was an agreement between Yeahsure and me, and she is having issues with FANDOM, hopefully she'll be able to join the discussion tomorrow; but due to the delicacy of the situation, I'm reluctant to prolong it. I am still very afraid of what this may cause (and already has). Yes, due to that I am being intentionally vague, partly because of hoping for understanding without being detailed, and partly because I'd rather wait for Yeahsure's participation too, but I want to speak at the same time.
In all honesty, it was some other bits that we felt were the issue. Let's say, if the post had simply announced LGBT art and asked for headcanons about it, along with the request being worded as simply as, for example 'as per the art's topic, I'd like to only receive LGBT sexualities suggestions for it', that would work for me (Yeahsure has yet to say her stance, as I didn't suggest this instead to her, but I'm saying it now). But...it wasn't worded quite like that, it was a bit more negative towards the suggestions it didn't want to receive. If she agrees, I'd be all right with briging the post back for its initial purpose, announcing art and asking for suggestions, witouht bits that...pretty much focused on anything else not being wanted.
About insinuations, I'm fairly sure I'm attracted to both men and women, and feeling good about it. The two of us simply felt that the way it was worded would be obvously seen as bad if it were the other way around with sexualities, so it is in this case too. As for me, a simple change of tone and focus would fix it. I didn't state anything until Yeahsure is here because I am frankly scared of responses, but hopefully this approach works.
No worries, just checking.
I just thought of one thing- I made collages for many fanon factions, I could make on for Chestity, but I'd need more info on it, will you be adding any soon, Elias?
And of course, others are free to add their creations there.
(Edited by EmmyAnimal)
Welp, I forgot about creating the new off-topic post again, here it is now: https://divergent.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000049849